Wednesday, 31 July 2013

A myth debunked at last, and Carbo on Maccabi

At last, an official debunking of the "Carbo threw the Cup off Vinnie Paul's balcony" story:  Official Stanley Cup keepers Philip Pritchard, Mike Bolt, Walter Neubrand, and Howie Borrow say it never happened.  (link)

Also, here are a couple of quotes from Guy regarding the recent Maccabi Games in Israel, where he coached the Canadian men's hockey team to a gold medal:

“It was a little different,” Carbonneau said of ice hockey in Israel, where the sport was part of Maccabiah for the first time since 1997.

“They’re just starting to understand what hockey is,” he said. “It’s a small country. Hopefully in the next little while there will be a little more, and if [so], more kids are eventually going to skate and they’ll be better.”link)

Friday, 26 July 2013

And another Carbo news item

Today, Guy and Team Canada at the Maccabi Games in Israel won the gold medal in men's ice hockey! Bravo, Coach Carbonneau!  Now go and bug those NHL general managers with this, because that is where you really belong.

Guy and the Basic Game Worn Jersey 101

* Edited October 12, 2013 to add photo of jersey and remove dead eBay link

This is a post I wrote on the forum last week involving a Carbonneau game worn jersey.  I chose not to publicize the jersey here based on the things I wrote, I was pretty sure it was a good jersey and it is, but not 100% and when you're bidding on expensive things like game worn collectibles, it's probably good to be 100% sure.  

So essentially, in case I was wrong, I didn't want to be responsible for someone's expensive mistake.  But my information here is good, which I've been told by other game worn people, and the jersey itself closed on eBay for $1950.07 which is pretty much the average/standard price for one of Guy's Montreal sweaters.

(photo source:  eBay)

 This is the sweater (eBay link is now dead) and congratulations to the person who got it, because it's terrific!  And my offer of help with photomatching still stands, I'm always happy to help out someone who likes Guy. 

This is a basic example of the things to look for, and research, when buying game worn collectibles.  It's more casual in my writing than the things I write in this blog because well, it's a forum.

Okay. I hardly ever post here but this came up. I certainly don't know as much about gameworn in general as you guys but I do know about Carbonneau, having been a hardcore collector of his stuff for over half a decade. It's not that concentrated in GW stuff -- I have a few pieces -- but I have pretty much all the random non-GW stuff that came out during the Habs era. With Dallas there was not a whole lot. Anyway.
I'm just going on what I know and what I can take a good guess at based on what I've seen and related information, but the wear on this jersey looks about right based on other Carbos I've seen. Lots of repairs on the elbows and sleeves (yep that's Guy all right) ratty crest, stick marks, etc. The 86/04 tag -- I do not know much about Habs tagging, or Maska tagging, but there was a 1986-87 home on Classic a number of years ago with the same 86/04 tag, so I'm guessing that season? The listing does not give the year, which bugs me. Also bugging me is the "obtained from a member of Leafs staff" provenance. If you're doing provenance and you're putting it on an auction page you better come up with something better than that. How did the Leafs person get it? From the Leafs? (WTF were they doing with a Habs jersey? If they had a Habs jersey, they probably would've burned it. LOL) From Carbo himself? From a collector? Was the Leafs person a collector? If so, what do they know? Questions. If I had the answers I'd put them right on the auction page instead of having people ask in because with something of that price, they're gonna ask. I know LOAs don't come even remotely close to photomatching, but yeah. The auction page does not even mention an LOA. If you're a memorabilia dealer which this seller seems to be but you're not offering one? Suspect. 7 day return policy on the auction.
Also, a friend of mine has a 1984-85 Carbonneau home (from Marc Juteau/Classic, sleeves on that one are a disaster too) and she was told by a Habs/Carbo fan that they only issued one home jersey to him that year, which is the one she has. He didn't say about the road jerseys but I'm guessing just one too. That was two years before this jersey, if the date is right. So that also explains the wear -- less jerseys. But people can also fake wear pretty well so I don't know. Also the policy on how many jerseys issued might've changed in the two years -- Habs experts?
Also. I first saw this listing this morning. It was at $1700 then. No bids, that was just the starter. The auction has obviously been pulled -- it wasn't to end for another few days -- and relisted at $1400. When it was at 17 it had 6 watchers. I can't find information on the seller other than it's apparently Glory Days Sports in Toronto. 28 Ripley. They have a Facebook page but it's basically empty. No updates. The page has been on Facebook since 2011. [This was the one thing I was wrong about, the Facebook page I was referring to was a different one, the one linked here is active.]  eBay feedback is basically good -- no negs this year -- but that's neither here nor there re: the authenticity of the jersey.
So there you go. If anyone else can shed more light, please do so. If it is legit, I'm surprised that someone hasn't already jumped on it because it's a Montreal jersey and Guy's stuff from Montreal is most desirable. Glory days. But then again, I'm also surprised that his 2nd to last jersey on gamewornauctions a few months ago went so low. It was the last of his from his NHL career to ever hit the market (the home from his final game was retained by the Stars, per Barry, and likely given to him when he retired). And it's an SCF, even if the Stars lost that series. Based on some of the prices of other Carbos from auctions past. But that always can change.
And, if it is legit, it's pretty well photomatchable and I have a very, very good shot at matching it because I have all the Les Canadiens magazines from when Guy played with them except I think the one from 1985-86 where Gainey is doing the Superman thing on the cover. And those have tons, TONS, of Guy action photos. So if someone here or someone reading this picks it up, e-mail me.
My verdict: I'm not going to give one one way or the other, I'll leave that to the rest of you, I'm just giving what I know personally.
Oh yeah. And the pasted in Wikipedia thing on Guy's career. I edited that previously so it WAS right, but I see someone has effed with it again because his draft date is listed as 1980. NOT RIGHT. It was 1979. 3rd round. 44th overall. This is why you shouldn't rely on Wikipedia for anything. 

Wednesday, 17 July 2013

More about Guy in Israel

From the Canadian Jewish News:

TORONTO — When Maccabi Canada announced that Mike Keenan would be coaching the Canadian hockey team at the Maccabiah Games this summer, it was expected his reputation would give the program instant credibility and attract top-notch players.
Well, that’s pretty much what happened, but in the last few weeks, Keenan, a 1994 Stanley Cup winner as coach of the New York Rangers, pulled out of the games, as did the rest of his coaching staff.
But the move, made for personal reasons and after Keenan signed to coach in the KHL, didn’t leave Maccabi Canada bereft.
Suspecting Keenan’s personal situation could be an issue – his daughter suffers from cancer – Maccabi Canada developed a back-up plan.
Enter Guy Carbonneau as head coach. A three-time Cup winner with the Montreal Canadiens (1986, 1993) and the Dallas Stars (1999) as a player, Carbonneau was also a coach with the storied Habs franchise from 2006 to 2009, including a stint as head coach.
Wayne Primeau has joined him as his assistant. Primeau played for a number of NHL teams from 1995 to 2010, including Buffalo, San Jose, Calgary, Boston and Pittsburgh. He ended his playing career in Toronto.
At a two-day mini-camp at York University’s Canlan Ice Sports facility earlier this week, Carbonneau got a chance to meet the players and prepare for the tournament. He admitted he’s at somewhat of a disadvantage, joining the team late and not being present at tryouts last year.
“We’ll try to keep things simple at the start, tweak it as we go on,” he said.
He’ll have to strategize for the Olympic-sized rink at the Canada Centre in Metulla, but he’s confident he has the personnel to do so.
“We have guys with good speed, good hands,” he said.
Carbonneau, who captained the Canadiens and was known as a defensive specialist, said, “I always want us to be sound defensively.”
Like the rest of the Maccabi hockey brain trust, Carbonneau is somewhat in the dark as to the level of competition they’ll face. The Americans have a lot of quality NCAA players to draw from, and they recently added Colby Cohen, a 215-pound defenceman who played a handful of games for the Colorado Avalanche and who was one of the Boston Bruins’ “Black Aces” the year they won the Cup.
The host Israelis recently won a gold medal in the International Ice Hockey Federation’s Division II B. Rounding out the tournament will be a team from Ukraine. Little is known about them, except that they replaced a team from France.
The Israeli team is coached by Jean Perron, the man behind the bench of the 1986 Stanley Cup-winning Habs. Carbonneau smiles at the prospect of going up against his old mentor.
“He’s a competitive guy. He always has been,” said Carbonneau. “But so am I.”
Montrealer Alan Maislin, who’s long been associated with hockey in Israel, recruited Carbonneau to Team Canada. He did the same with Perron 10 years ago, asking him to coach the Israeli national team – a task he’s assumed on several occasions.
Doing his due diligence, Carbonneau asked around and heard glowing reports about the Israel experience. One of the people he spoke to was Jacque [sic] Demers, who coached the Canadian team at the 1997 games – the only other time hockey was a Maccabiah sport. Demers was the Habs’ coach in 1993, when Carbonneau won his second Cup.
“Everyone had rave reviews about those Olympics,” he said, referring to the Maccabiah, which have been called the Jewish Olympics.
“I expect it to be a great experience for me and Wayne and all the players,” he said. “None of us has had the chance to win a gold medal, so we’re going to try.”

Tuesday, 9 July 2013

The Hall of Fame, and Brenden Morrow's future

Today was "Annual Lisa Gets Annoyed Day," otherwise known as Hockey Hall of Fame selection day.  And in usual fashion, the HHOF selection committee didn't fail to disappoint.  With all due respect to this year's inductees, when is Guy going to get the call?  This was his 11th year of eligibility, and once again he has been overlooked.  Then again, this is also the committee who failed to do the right thing a few years ago and induct a deserving builder, Pat Burns, while he was still alive to be able to enjoy it, so I have no expectations where they are concerned.

However, Guy himself is happy to see his former Habs teammate and co-captain Chris Chelios make the cut:
(Translated from French)  "I am very very happy. There was no doubt that Chris Chelios, when he would have a chance to enter the Hall of Fame, he would do so. He had an extraordinary career.  It is not every day that a guy plays 24 years in the National Hockey League. He fully deserves the honour. 
"The fact that he finished his career in Detroit certainly helped.  Detroit has always been a mainstay in the National Hockey League, a team that is always there to win, and supports young talent.  In his later years, he knew he was going to play less often, but he always gave the same effort."  

But Guy was also disappointed to see his former coach, the late Pat Burns, overlooked:
"He has the numbers, titles, everything it takes to be elected.  The sooner he enters the Hall, the better."

As for his own Hall of Fame expectations:
"Your ultimate dream is to lift the Stanley Cup. The Hall of Fame is one of the dreams of any player, but I'm still young!"  (source)

* * *

Also, Guy has revealed that his son-in-law Brenden Morrow has interest in playing for the Canadiens:
(Translated from French)  "He did not veto playing for the Canadiens.  There have been many movements in recent days. There are teams that are interested in his services, there are others that are less so, but there are teams who were surprised to see the interest Brenden has for them.  I really think the Canadiens were surprised that he was open to the idea of ​​playing in Montreal.  Now, only time will tell if they are interested or not."
On the prospect of daughter Anne-Marie returning to Montreal:
"They liked Dallas. They now have to turn the page.  Brenden and the children are eager to know where he'll end his career."  (source)

* * *

Finally, here is a photo from a charity softball game Guy participated in recently with the Habs alumni:

(image source:

Friday, 5 July 2013

Guy to coach in Israel...and OT: farewell, Daniel Alfredsson

Mike Keenan was originally slated to coach the Maccabi Canada men's hockey team, but has been forced to bow out due to family medical issues.  Guy will be replacing him at the Maccabi Games in Metula, Israel which take place from July 16 to July 31.  We wish him and the team the best of luck!  (link)

And in a stunning turn of events, the longtime captain of my team, the Ottawa Senators -- Daniel Alfredsson -- has left us for Detroit, hoping for the chance to win a Stanley Cup before he retires.  Can't say as I blame him, but I'm left once again reaching into my Byrds/Gene Clark fandom to find words for what I can't express.  Probably silly, but here it is.

(Clark, with slight lyric modifications by yours truly)

"Tried So Hard"
Stopped awhile this morning on our way back home 
We had to realize this time that we'd be all alone 
Cause he is moving somewhere far away not slow 
And though we tried so hard to please him
He said he really had to go
Even though this time it really hurts us bad
We've been through similarities
It's not the first break we've had
And we just can't let it bring us down too low
And though we tried so hard to please him
There must be something more to know
Never thought that we would find our end this way
It seemed that everything was going fine
Still with all the things that we can do or say
It won't change the fate we know so well is ours

So we'll stop again and look right past the pain
Cause we've been in love before and we can love again
While he is moving somewhere far away not slow
And though we tried so hard to please him
He said he really had to go...

And the original:

Finally, to coincide with my previous post about Super Dave, I have found a "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" style connection between Guy and the Super One.  Featured in a 1990 episode of Super Dave was renowned Quebec impressionist Andre Philippe Gagnon, whose music video for "La Canada" featured...Guy!  (look for him at around the 1:28 mark)  And that's only 3 degrees!